In this episode, we talk to Katy Marshall, the General Manager of Pattern Brands. We talk to Katy about the importance of impact versus complexity, so that she can not just execute something for one brand, but execute across the family of Pattern Brands.
Transcript
Roger 00:01
Hi, welcome to the DTC Growth show by #paid. My name is Roger and every episode I sit down with founders and leaders in ecommerce and talk about everything from starting, launching, and growing a brand And today I'm talking to Katy Marshall, General Manager at Pattern Brands. Katy, thanks for being here today.
Katy Marshall 00:21
It's great to be here Roger.
Roger 00:22
Nice. There's a lot of responsibility in your role as a general manager, as a general manager, um, help us understand what the competing priorities are for you at Pattern Brands.
Katy Marshall 00:33
Absolutely, you know, like, like many startups were a lean team with a lot of ideas. And, you know, I've worked in startups in the past, and it's always a game of really rigorous prioritization. For us, I think, you know, it's just even more so because we are operating to brands and incubating and building more. So we're very nimble, we like to move quickly. And I would say, you know, for us, especially, we try to keep a very high bar for ideas, because we have to be efficient. That's the nature of running a multi-brand business.
Roger 01:07
Yeah, a high bar for ideas. What does can you unpack what that means?
Katy Marshall Yeah, you know, we've really looked at prioritizing based on impact versus complexity. And how do we drive the most impact while adding the least amount of complexity to our work into the business? You know, one thing that we've learned early is that when you have multiple brands, especially at a very early stage, you have to look for the commonalities and try to keep things simple and find sort of the synergies and execution, otherwise, you end up going down different rabbit holes, that aren't necessarily providing the most impact for the whole business. So we really try to encourage our teams, I think, with the whole business in mind, and think about the highest total impact, least total complexity. And that's actually part of why our team is structured. So we have very few people focused on one brand new, one opportunity, most folks are dynamically working across both. So they have the context, they have the big picture. And they're sort of empowered to make those prioritization decisions.
Roger 02:04
That's really wise. So impact versus complexity, so that you can not just execute something for one brand. But execute that across the family of brands. Really smart and your team is, is you need a quite a diverse team because you've got brand Product Marketing, growth, creative strategy, business ops. And it's not just for one brand, it's kind of for three because you got equal parts, you got open spaces, and then you have the overall business to manage and look out for. So technically, it's all of those functions times three, you gave us a little insight into how you operate in, sort of make it a bit more streamlined. But what else drives your prioritization? When it comes to those disciplines, marketing growth, creative strategy, ops? How do you divide your time and know where to spend your time?
Katy Marshall 02:55
Yeah, absolutely, I would say first, you know, I'm a big proponent of having a brand marketing, growth, marketing, Product Marketing, and creative all living under sort of the same leadership and the same group, because that's how I think we get to the strongest outcome, you know, creatively for the business and also for the consumer. And, you know, there's a lot that's been said probably on your podcast, even about how those teams have sort of different and competing priorities. But to me, honestly, it starts with a really strong vision of the brand and our value to the customer. And we all are super laser-focused on that. And I found that, when that's the case, it becomes much easier to work together to solve how do we communicate the value proposition most compellingly and creatively? How do we deliver the most value to the customer? And, you know, when you're able to do that you can unlock bigger and bolder, creative ideas, those ideas will help your click-through rate and your conversion rate, lower your CAC, and you know, the product experience will be great. And that will help you deliver that retention and lifetime value. So it's a virtuous cycle. That's why all of those teams are so important to play a role and why I'm just a big believer in having sort of a holistic view of marketing.
Roger 04:09
Where do you think you gravitate to now you manage all of those disciplines? But where do you think you're the strongest if you had to become an individual contributor? Where do you think you'd thrive the most in any of those disciplines?
Katy Marshall 04:21
I know it's funny. I've been an individual contributor across a couple of these disciplines. And I think that's why I'm such a believer in the full marketing view as I started my career, my marketing career as the first acquisition marketing manager at Harry's. So I started by buying ads, Google ads, Facebook, ads on the founders' credit cards, and scaling that program. And then I went to a business after Business School, decided I was going to go to you know what the acquisition team called the dark side of Brent, brand and brand management and I worked in big CPG and Because you don't have the feedback loop in CPG of like, you know, very quick data, you're not able to AB test, right? When you're in an offline environment, we stop very easily, you're much more focused on the upfront strategy and the consumer insights. And because that's like, really your one shot to get things, right. So you're, you know, in DTC, you're just like, Alright, let's get it out. Let's test it. And we'll learn and, you know, 20 minutes, and then we can iterate on that learning.
Roger 05:27
You know, when I worked at Kraft, Heinz, we had one shot a year to get a campaign, right. And it would take you several months to find out how can practice that campaign really was a market. So I really see, there's so much benefit to the like speed of direct to consumer, the speed of a digital environment, being able to testimony very quickly. But like upfront strategy, brand, and consumer insights, pieces are so important to be able to put your best foot forward you're getting the most. And like that's what I love about our team is we just try to put the best of both worlds together.
Roger 06:02
Speaking of your past there, in the CPG world, you launched something called springboard when you were at Kraft. And so you've been working with startups and scale-ups, even in your sort of enterprise or big corporation days. What's maybe one of the major lessons that you took away from working with startups and scale ups in that environment that you brought over to, to open spaces and equal parts?
Katy Marshall 06:27
Yeah, absolutely. Honestly, one of the biggest learnings to me from a business perspective was just how important it is in a multi-threaded model, that you can make really efficient trade-offs between those brands. And part of the reason why we started springboard, originally, Kraft Heinz was, you know, when you're in a company, Kraft has 25 $26 billion company, multi-billion dollar iconic brands, when you're faced with you know, portfolio trade-off decisions between investing and one of those brands that return very efficiently and taking an unknown risk becomes very hard to take that risk. And what's called innovators dilemma is something that, you know, happens all the time there. And so we created a springboard to basically carve out space and dedicate resources toward new brands. And actually, similar to a startup, we were looking to find out product-market fit within the organization. So we actually took a three-pronged approach of incubating and building new brands internally, acquiring brands outright and then partnering, incubating early-stage brands, and in more of an accelerator program model. But, you know, what was special about springboard was being able to carve out that space where you're comparing those brands against each other as from similar stages of growth, versus very big or very small opportunities. And when we came to came to the pattern, you know, that was part of why we tried to launch our first two brands in such quick succession was to have everybody sort of looking at the business at a very early stage at a similar time, so that we can apply to learn at the same stage across brands. And we're also making investment offers, you know, we're making investment decisions, you can apples, not apples, not apples and oranges.
08:11
Do you find being in that environment that it is better to acquire is a test to acquire DTC brand as a test versus incubating and launching something in house from scratch? If you were in that position, which route would you take? Yeah,
Roger 08:28
well, I was in that position. And what we found was incubating is hard. Um, it can be extremely rewarding. And, you know, one of the businesses we incubated for and I still have a lot of hardcore, help devour that we launched and reached over $100 million in sales in a couple of years. But it is still comparable to the rest of the portfolio small. And it takes a lot of patience and a lot of sort of organizational stewardship and executive stewardship, for those brands to continue to get the investment to grow to be, you know, really impactful players and a big waxy portfolio. Acquiring is a much quicker route to scale. Because, you know, you can acquire a brand that already has, you know, a product market, fit some distribution and then leverage the benefits of a large legacy player like Kraft Heinz to expand his points of distribution off the shelf, more product innovation. So if I were recommending one, I think for most organizations, you know, acquiring a brand and then scaling that brand is the more effective, more scalable route to Market. But, you know, I think if you can find and dedicate resources to brand building, it's obviously a unique and rewarding experience and you as a brand builder. Obviously parceled
09:47
out. Yeah. And what do you think? The differences are between launching a brand or startup brand, under an umbrella With a certain safety net and launching one in the real world, what are some of the differences that you've seen so far?
Roger 10:09
Yeah, absolutely, it's very different, it's very different, I would say the commonality between them is you need to find a real consumer insight, a real pain point, and develop an authentic product and a set of products. And if it's around that pain point, and that's true, whether you're, you know, within a corporate environment and an intrapreneur. Or if you're, you know, an entrepreneur, building your own thing, I would say, obviously, in the case of, you know, intrapreneurship, you get a whole host of resources, that aren't necessarily available to most entrepreneurs, in terms of, you know, Kraft, Heinz, we would incubate a brand, you could have a built-in sales team, who could bring that brand to market across the country immediately, in 1000s of stores, you would have, you know, access to capital that you still need to pitch for. But you know, it's not capital. And, you know, you don't need to worry about term sheets and lawyers, it's a much more straightforward process. But on the other hand, you don't really have the same level of ownership as a true entrepreneur, right. And you're, you know, you may be the final decision maker in some respects, but you're not really owning the business in the same way as if you truly did own business.
11:22
You mentioned some of the similarities there between you give it some great, I think contrast, but you also mentioned some seal similarities, and one of them was customer insight, you need to do that, regardless of sort of how you're operating, whether you're in an incubator or doing this out, you know, as an entrepreneur, I'd love to learn about how you learn about customers. Because from what I've understood, it's pretty invasive, like you actually go into homes to observe people that pre COVID and I know you've switched it up, but I'd love to hear a little bit about your approach to getting customer insight.
Katy Marshall 11:52
Yeah.
Roger 11:54
You're right about that, you know, I would say, I'm a big believer, and, you know, I've been lucky to be mentored by, you know, some real customer-focused, customer-obsessed leaders, who always taught me that seeing what people do is more powerful than having them tell you or say, right, if I asked you, if you invite this product, you're probably going to tell me Yes. But if I actually, you know, see you in a store environment of choosing between different alternatives, and you have to worry about pricing and, you know, your, you know, the husband is in the store with you and he wants to go someplace else, that gives me a much more realistic sense of what the actual trade-offs are. Right. So it's always more interesting to me to be able to observe as close as possible to real behavior versus just, you know, run a survey, or do a couple of interviews, which are also great methodologies that have their own tiny place. So we did before COVID, we did go into customer homes and do sort of IRL interviews, and actually, we still are doing them, but we switch things up a little bit. And so we actually did over the summer, for example, a set of video interviews, where we have someone cook a meal and watch them cook a meal with the cookware and know as they're cooking, can ask questions in the cooking process of, you know, why did you choose the metal spoon versus the wooden spoon? And you know, how are you thinking about, like, you know, using the pot versus the Dutch oven, and that just gives us a lot of insight into, you know, people's habits and behaviors at home and how they're using the product. We even had people write us a love letter to their favorite kitchen utensil. And, you know, that's like, it sounds like a really fun exercise. And it definitely was, but, you know, when they're writing about their favorite kitchen utensil, they're telling me all the reasons why they love it, which really are the product benefits. So it gives us you know, a very organic and natural way to uncover and get at the product insights. Because you can't just ask the customer to tell me what the product benefits are. That's how people are trained to think, right? It's our job as marketers to find, you know, other ways to sort of extract that information from them organically so we can get to the strongest insights and conclusions.
14:12
Interesting. So you during COVID, you're still watching them, you're making videos of them in the kitchen, and then you're and then you're sort of understanding how you could in doing that you're still able to see how they operate in the kitchen in a natural environment without the sort of being biased the questions leading into a certain bias.
Roger 14:34
Yes, another way we do it. So when I was at Kraft Heinz, we would do shop along with people in grocery stores. But you know, fortunately for us at the pattern, our stores virtual,
Katy Marshall 14:45
it's a digital store.
Roger 14:47
So another way that we sort of simulate or get at observed customer behavior. We actually started doing this pre-launch, we actually created dummy sort of alias websites for our brands. And we made like sort of simple Shopify storefronts for them, and have run a series of tests on them to really understand purchase behavior and purchase intent. So you know, one example we did this really at the startup COVID, opens, Facebook launched. And we immediately heard from customers that they were interested in an expanded variety of colors. For the product, the product really sits right at the intersection of organization and design and home decor, super personal. So we launched with a small assortment of colors to really establish buying behavior, product-market fit, but heard very quickly, hey, I would love to get this in, you know, this color that matches my living room or my bedroom. So you know, then very quickly, we needed to pivot into, you know, which colors do we sell? How many colors do we sell, and we actually did a lot of that testing, through creating ads of definitely the same product, same setup different colors, and serving click-through rate and add to carts on her dummy website.
16:02
That's interesting. I'm very curious, who lets you and I'll get back to sort of overseeing people as they purchase digitally, who lets you into their home, like in real life? How do you convince people to one film themselves or like, just let you into the house to observe them?
Roger 16:19
Yeah. And, you know, in the big CPG world, some firms and recruiters want this type of research in the startup world, the best way that we found to do it is to sort of getting to second-degree connections. So asking friends to ask friends, if you just do your immediate circle, people are biased, right? And, you know, they're looking to help you and please you and kind of have a sense of the answers that maybe you're looking for. But if you try to get one degree removed, those people generally have less context, but they're still willing to help and, you know, we, you know, typically incentivize people with a 25, or $50, gift card, or maybe a free product, you know, as a thank you for the time.
17:04
Now, back to the sort of the dummy site, or the sort of the virtual experience, or the virtual shopping experience, what are some of the discrepancies you've seen maybe between what people have told you verbally, and then what you experience them doing? On your store? What are some of the discrepancies, maybe a story that you have, you know, somebody said, they would only buy this, but then they didn't or
Roger 17:28
with colors. So we did before COVID, we did sort of a quick round of calls on colors. And then we pivoted into this digital sort of validation model. When we were talking to people face to face, there's a lot of interest in mortgage colors. And then when you actually got into the store environment, people went for the basics.
17:51
Totally. Absolutely. And I totally see that. When does that where does the value of the consumer insight stop? At what point do you as an observer, or as an interviewer, say, Okay, thank you, and I'll take it over from here.
Roger 18:07
I think the biggest trap of consumer insights is expecting this consumer to come up with a solution for you. And like, that's where I like to stop the researches, I think customers can give you a very clear sense of their pain points, their experiences, they can choose between a selection of items, but they're not going to tell you what your innovation pipeline should be. Right? That's like the marketer's job to then take that information back and synthesize it. And then you know, do the ideation and do the prioritization exercises to get to the best solution, the best outcome, then go back and validate those options. Not necessarily expecting the customer to come up with a solution or don't
18:48
know, that's why is now moving back to pattern brands and what you're doing. introduce us to the pattern brands philosophy, to your way of working to the purpose of the identity of the organization.
Roger 19:03
Yeah, absolutely. So the pattern is an early stage multi-brand, consumer products business with the mission to help our customers enjoy daily life at home. And that mission was really sort of the genesis of the organization. And so in that sense of is truly a mission-driven organization. Our founders started patterns. And founding teams started pattern because of experiences they were having in their own life when they were running a very successful brand development agency called Jim lane, where they were feeling you know, overworked, burned out, and started to find relief from spending time at home. And really, you know, engaging in sometimes for the first time and activities like cooking, home organization, investing more in your home goods in your surroundings and wanted to share that with you know, other folks especially Are you in a sort of millennial stage of settling down and really establishing a home for the first time, and if they had a feeling that maybe some of the habits and activities that our parents grew up with, and you know, started building organically in their early 20s, like, our generation hasn't had a chance to build, because we immediately go into this world, but we're working all the time. And so they wanted to really get our customers to take a step back and to start re-engaging in their home in their space. And I'll caveat that was an insight that emerged before COVID. COVID is obviously for that too often, you know, more time in our homes and engage in a much wider set of activities in our homes, and we ever imagined.
20:45
There are even at home for us, you know, we're looking at a new set of kitchen stuff, pots and pans to be specific. And there is a myriad of options. And there's a couple in the DTC space that we've shortlisted, what do you think sets equal parts? Apart from all of the other items that I could choose from my wife could choose from?
Katy Marshall 21:10
Absolutely.
Roger 21:12
You know, the design is at the center of every product we build, whether it's, you know, equal parts, or open spaces, our DNA, and our heritage is as a design agency. And so we take a lot of pride in the design and the small details that we've sort of architected into every product. So equal parts have, you know, it's a really accessible line of cookware, especially if you're sort of operating to premium copper for the first time, we built it so that it was really sort of like a foolproof set of kitchenware, where we have you know, nonstick ceramic coating, that's like, you know, we tested to be extremely durable. So we fried over 1000 eggs on it, threw it in the dishwasher, use metal utensils on it, and it still holds up, it's also a very forgiving surface to cook on. Which is kind of what I like about it, I would say I'm, I have been honing my cooking skills through COVID. But definitely still enjoy working with a nonstick surface. And then, you know, the handles and the design features are meant to be as easy and foolproof as possible. So we actually relaunched the September, one of the features that we included was a heat resistant top knob on our lives, that's designed and sort of ergonomically to fit in your hand and dissipate heat. The cookware is also super easy to stack and store. Most of our customers have pretty small kitchens, limited shelf space, that was something that we learned through some of our in-person interactions. And so you're having things that really nest in-store easily together was key. And the last thing that we learned, especially as we were reengineering and upgrading the product is that in most of our customers, we're investing in a nicer Cookware Set often for the first time, want it to be as much about the decor as it is about functionality. So we wash the cookware in a range of colors and really designed it so that you could if you wanted to have one or two pieces sit on a countertop or a stovetop and look great in the context of the best of your
23:22
What's the best selling color for you guys? Are you allowed to share that?
Katy Marshall 23:27
Yeah, again, the best color is cream.
Roger 23:31
That would have been my guess because I figured actually,
Katy Marshall 23:33
actually, on both brands, the cream is a real hit.
23:36
There you go the cream people like their neutrals. What do you what are some practical things that you and your team are doing to inspire customers toward your philosophy? So if they're not already bought in, for example, what are you doing to inspire people towards caring about design in the kitchen?
Roger 23:52
Yeah, I would say first and foremost, like because we're a mission-driven company, you know, we really believe that people are, you know, absolutely buying the product and need to have an amazing product experience. But they're also, you know, hopefully buying into our mission and our philosophy because it to us that is equally as important. So, but you know, both brands, we you know, we launched them with content and guidance that is there to sort of support you and inspire you on your journey, whether that's for cooking or home organization. So we've created a set of mini-guides for both brands that come out through email. Social media, as well as text that has some of them are in the form of content and interviews. Some of them are really practical tips and tricks that come from chefs or organizers around how to organize your bathroom drawers, how to know what to do if you accidentally overseas and dish and things that we've found really practical in our own lives that we try to share with our community as inspiration but also just practical advice to support them on their journey.
24:58
And how are you How are you getting people's attention? Who doesn't know about you yet? How are you capturing their attention, keeping their attention, their attention, and turning them into customers?
Roger 25:12
We do that through a whole host of different things in terms of advertising, and media. But one way that, you know, I think the team has done a particularly great job of leaders and partnerships, where the partnerships are very cost-effective, but very targeted and efficient way to, you know, find folks who not only you know, probably are in the market for our products, but also sort of subscribing to a similar set of philosophies and beliefs. So one thing that the team is doing right now is 10 days of gifting partnership, where every day, they're creating different gifts and bundles with partner brands that align to, you know, the philosophy for equal parts and open spaces. And, you know, it's a great way to give back to our audiences, but also to really show how we fit into lifestyles and different audiences and
26:03
communities. And when you first launch, you have a lot of decisions to make about pricing, and where to place that where to put that. So I'd love to hear your philosophy, your thought going into that conversation or that decision? What's going through your head? And how are you nailing down sort of what that initial price is going to be?
Roger 26:21
It is an art and a science. I've never met somebody who has a perfect answer for pricing. So if you're listening, please do, please reach out. But I can share my perspective, which is, you know, I think you have to look externally and internally, you know, I think it's important to look at the market segment the market, understand who you're firing, what your competitor set is, and how you fit into that. And then I think, you know, looking internally at what type of product Are you trying to build. So, you know, if you're trying to fit into the mainstream market, with a freemium product, then you know, you need to be able to acquire those materials very efficiently, right, to play that to your or there has to be other efficiencies model that worked out, if you're trying to, you know, sort of competing with sort of mainstream product in the mainstream market, then that decision becomes very straightforward, for example. So it's important to look externally at who you're hiring internally, it's sort of the product brief, and what you're trying to build. And then, you know, the last piece, which I think is sometimes overlooked is, what is the margin structure that you need to support the business and particularly for direct to consumer businesses, in particular in today's environment, profitability is so important. And so understanding what you think your cost of acquisition will be, and you know, the nature of the business in terms of whether it's recurring revenue or one-time revenue, you know, doing the math on that, and what you think your average transaction sizes is really important, too, because that's ultimately how the business businesses success and viability will be measured.
28:04
You mentioned recurring or one-time revenue, how are you guys thinking about maybe subscription, subscription models, or recurring revenue at open spaces equal parts?
Roger 28:15
Yeah, so our brands currently, just by nature of being sort of home goods are typically one time purchases or sort of what we kind of call manual purchases. So we've no subscription elements in the business today. But what we do see is actually a pretty strong pattern of folks coming back and buying multiple items over time. So you know, especially I would say, for a business like open spaces, you know, once we get you hooked on organizing, there's a whole host of different occasions, rooms, and needs, that require that type of attention. So typically, somebody will come to us to organize one space, and the products love the experience and come back when they're moving or their needs change.
28:59
If you're listening to this, and you haven't seen the pattern brands sort of their visual identity. One of the things you guys use, if I'm not mistaken, is the tree and you have you know, for each brand, you add a fruit will there be when you think of subscription services in recurring revenue, is there space in that family on that tree for subscription services? does that fit into your philosophy and what you see for the future of the brand?
Roger 29:24
Yeah, it absolutely does. And, you know, the way that we think about it is really, how do we build businesses that are aligned to our mission? And, you know, our mission is to help our customers enjoy daily life at home and there's a wide range of products within the home that you meet those criteria that we're excited about. And certainly, a number of them have a functional aspect.
29:48
Going into Black Friday, so you guys do have a couple of promotions happening. What was the conversation like you know, with your leadership team or with your team regarding Black Friday, Cyber Monday going into the holidays, how are you guys thinking about them?
Roger 30:00
Yeah, you know, this is our second holiday season on equal parts first holiday season. aces. So we knew from last year that this was a really pivotal time of year for cookware, we saw you know, even without, we've just been in the market for a few weeks at a time while the holidays hit. And we thought just organically a surge of interest incorporate as a gift. And so, you know, the decision from that standpoint was fairly straightforward this year, because we knew the customer was there and was looking for, you know, the opportunity to buy gifts from us. And so, you know, we believe in following the customer. And so, from a cookware perspective, it was really straightforward. For open spaces. To be totally honest with you, you didn't really know, if you typically look at your home organization and the category, you know, most of the behaviors, q1 focus, right New Year's resolution, spring cleaning, and then typically peaks again during moving season, in the summer, or peak moving season. So we decided to really sort of test and learn this year for the holiday, we launched one limited edition item that we thought could be more giftable didn't necessarily know the demand was hair, but ran are sort of testing Black Friday campaign and saw an unbelievable response. And I think it just speaks to the fact that these products are not just storage products, they really sit in sort of the intersection of storage and decor. And the decor is a very giftable category. So you know, I think going forward expect to see more grass. And in the holiday season open spaces.
31:36
Awesome. And I know that, that you're that you guys are passionate about caring for our planet, how does that care, influence your day to day management of the brand, what have been some quarters, maybe you've avoided cutting is a result of pursuing a healthy planet.
Roger 31:52
So sustainability is something that comes to life in every product decision we've made. And it's a huge piece of, you know, what our team cares about. And the mission of these brands. You know, promoting enjoyment can't come at the expense of others, especially the expense of our planet, right? So that's something that we've intentionally architected into the product. One example across both brands have sort of a strategic and intentional choice we made was just to avoid plastic packaging in any of the products. And when you're shipping products overseas across the country, especially products that can be fragile. Plastic is typically single-use plastic is typically a very cheap and efficient way of you know, protecting those products. But we've really pushed our team to come up with recyclable and natural alternatives to plastic that are better for the environment. And we found ways to make them effective.
32:54
What risks does focusing on sustainability, maybe pose to the pattern brands family that when you think of competitors, for example, that don't value that, that don't prioritize that, that might put you at a disadvantage? What risks Do you think sustainability poses to you?
Roger 33:14
To be honest, you know, deciding to invest in this can be more costly, you know, part of the reason why people use single-use plastic filled with air is that it's a very cheap way of packing products. Right? And, you know, so we've had to decide to lean in, and invest and spend to, you know, what we believe is to do the right thing. And no, we do that, because it's wise for our values to align with our mission, I think it's the right thing to do. But to be honest, Roger, we've also found that our customers care and appreciate the difference. And, you know, our data backs that up to our customer, you know, is typically somebody who cares more than average about the environment is very concerned about the future of the planet. And I think notices when brands try to go the extra mile and make the difference. And we're by no means perfect. There's a long way to go on on this stuff. But, you know, we commit to doing our best in every stage of the business and you know, I think our customers appreciate that that transparency and intentionality.
34:20
Yeah, it's something that I think some people forget when they hear about a brand is sustainable. I think they hear the shiny pneus of it, but they forget that it's to a certain extent, sacrificial, right, like it does eat into our margins, this does cost us something right to do the right thing here. So so. So I like hearing that thank you for sharing, who have been some of the people that you've been influenced by, as we wrap up here. I'd love to know who some of the people that who are some of the people that you look up to you in your life and your career, whether it's professional or personal, who are some people that you know, you lean on whether you know them personally or not some of the people you lean on to sort of guide you through life and career.
Roger 35:01
I've been so lucky to work for it really incredible mentors who instilled in me, you know, a love of marketing and a business at a really pivotal time in my career. So So I would just name a couple, I would say, you know, first and foremost to Harry's founders, seeing them operate, you know, from a very early stage and scale the business very quickly, in a very consistent and disciplined way, has been tremendously inspiring. But I would say the biggest lesson I honestly took from them was just a mentality of No job is too big or too small. Today, you know, they will jump in and answer your customer emails, they will write letters to the customer, if somebody is having a bad day, like, they'll just be all hands on deck, to see how they can help and find a way and, you know, I really believe that that type of servant leadership is, is so crucial, especially looking at early-stage home business. So that was something that stuck with me from a very early stage. My boss and mentor from Harry's Allie Melnick, who currently runs the Flamingo brands, they're just, you know, it was probably the first person who really taught me to be curious about customers, and was always looking to sort of lead with the customer in mind. And, and lastly, from my Kraft Heinz experience, I was so lucky to work with this woman, Michelle St. Jacques, who's now the CMO of Miller Corps. And, you know, for her Honestly, I learned first to lead authentically, she's very true to who she is. And, you know, people respect her for it. And you know, the sort of corollary to that is to really embrace and take creative risks. And if you take you to know, bold, creative risks and stand by your creative, especially when it's something that you know, the customer is going to resonate with. It pays off and I really learned that and was lucky to have that support from her.
36:59
No job too big servant leadership, customer curiosity, lead authentically embrace, and take creative risks. Those are some great lessons that you picked up from your mentors. Katie, thank you so much for joining us today. It was a delight to chat.
Katy Marshall 37:17
It was such a pleasure to be here. Thanks so much.
Roger 37:20
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