Jordan Schwarzenberger is a 24-year-old entrepreneur whose passion of tech, talent and socials, has been in hot demand by companies looking to future-proof their own brands. Jordan has landed roles at a few companies such as VICE Media, LADbible Group and YMU. Now he takes on a new challenge of co-founding Arcade Media where he manages some of the most famous creators on the planet, one of which being the infamous UK group called the Sidemen. Apart from this he also helps build power house brands that will stand the test of time such as Side+, XIX Vodka, and Sides.
Jordan Schwarzenberger is a 24-year-old entrepreneur whose passion of tech, talent and socials, has been in hot demand by companies looking to future-proof their own brands. Jordan has landed roles at a few companies such as VICE Media, LADbible Group and YMU. Now he takes on a new challenge of co-founding Arcade Media where he manages some of the most famous creators on the planet, one of which being the infamous UK group called the Sidemen. Apart from this he also helps build power house brands that will stand the test of time such as Side+, XIX Vodka, and Sides.
DTC growth show. Hey guys, it's
Sophia and Gabriella
and we are back at it again with another episode of the DTC growth show. If you guys are new here, Every episode Gavin I interview some of the most interesting founders at some of the most exciting DTC brands in the entire world. We are so excited for this episode, because we're interviewing Jordan Schwartz and Berger from arcade media who conveniently manage the side men. So this is an extremely exciting episode that we have for you guys today.
Drones a 24 year old entrepreneur whose passion for tech talent and socials has been in hot demand by companies looking to future proof their own brands Jordans landed roles that a few companies you may have heard of, like fights media, lad Bible and why Emile Now he takes on the challenge and are keen media building powerhouse brands that'll stand the test of time.
So walk us through your career journey, and how you prepared for your role today.
Yeah, so um, so my career journey started, I guess, weirdly when I was about 1314, so when I was at school, I was always sort of creating brands was just a thing that I didn't really know what in the industry existed, I didn't know anything, but I knew that I really enjoyed kind of making brands and bringing stuff to life, whatever that that meant. So I started when I was at school, quite a few projects, and many kinds of companies weren't really companies be called them a company and everything else. And I had like a clothing brand. I had a a film magazine called Lost VHS, I had a number of other sort of smaller projects. And that was sort of, I guess, the first thing in the world of branding creativity that I kind of did, and that was very, at that age between about 13 to 15. And then in 361, which is are kind of 16 to 18 periods, I was always doing stuff of school. And then basically I got to the end of my school experience. And I was faced with that crossroads that every young person gets faced with from an academic institution that's telling you, you know, you got to think about uni, you got to get on to your personal statements in your applications and make sure that everything's lined up and obviously it comes at this from the best intentions always don't get me wrong. But that was definitely the line that the university's next but and I think that's the line for most people in this country. I don't obviously about you guys, but it's definitely the thing here. And I got to the point where towards the end, I was just thinking, You know what, this doesn't feel quite me there was something not quite clicking about jumping from, you know, being at school, which was really great and creative, I could do a lot of stuff to the Nguni which felt like it was almost to tick a box rather than to be really I guess, the next most productive step for my journey going into the to the adult world. So towards the end of school I was I need to find somebody else just let me get one. Let me get now if I can get now. And so I spoke to my friend Noah who randomly had done work experience at political vice. And I thought before that, okay, all the companies out there vices one that I do think is pretty cool devices. Cool, right? That's always the thing, especially in 2015 vitamins like Asheville, a little bit less now I think. But at the time, it was it was poppin. And I was like, okay, they're great. They make really cool documentaries. They do Cool, good stuff. So let me speak try and speak to somebody there and get some advice. I didn't know what the jobs were, what the industry was, how any of it worked to make money. But I thought okay, that's interesting. Find a job in a site called a creative and I was like, Yep, great. That seems like me, you're like brands you do filming you do this. And that perfect job could have creative what could be better than that. So I asked my friend Noah who don't work experience, I said, Oh, can you send me your all the emails that you got from Vice because I knew that he had a bunch of emails, and he sent me about 20 emails. And then I remember sat there in my like, in the library of my school, I should have been doing my politics a level revision, but it wasn't, I was alright, let me just send an email out to all the people on this list and say, This is me, I've done a few bits before, I'm really interested in this space, I just want some advice, this could be my way out of of uni help, because I could just I could see it on the horizon. Even though ironically, the degree that I had got into studying and that I was gonna go to do was one called digital culture, King's College and the irony of studying digital culture, while being really interested in having this as I'm about to get into this footing was was quite ironic, but I'll get into that. And then yeah, I reached out to about 20 people there. I've got two replies always the way right, you blast out 100 Things you get one, two replies. And I was asked for ones come in and have a chat. So I went in, had a chat that went from that chapter and other chat and ended up meeting Ian Richardson, who's a friend of mine now who ran the agency that a covert I didn't know what an agency was, but he ran that we got on really well. He said, Look, come do some work experience. I said great. When to Glastonbury festival, we should be festival in the UK. Like came back. I was 18 years old. I was like I was like an adult. And I came back and started advice literally the week after Glastonbury 2015
When I started doing I did my whole summer that was the best thing ever. I learned so much I was able to jump into those different projects got a real kind of, I guess a crash course in in what vise what a media business is and how it works. I loved it but then had to go to uni often so I was okay this is not quite right. So then I started uni in beginning of in September 2015 And I was there for 12 weeks whilst I was working at VICE every Friday and carrying on I love working through Friday. I hate going to uni for the four days in the week. So it got to the point where I remember being at the Christmas party and I was really disgruntled at this reality that like, you know, vices incredible job was amazing. I was learning so much more being there in the space. And I was at uni studying course, which was so removed from digital culture, ironically. So I was sat there with with the creative director and the executive director, Adam and Ben and we were talking at the party for a level was like complete spatially like, we we really liked what you did what you do, we think you're great. And we don't want to annoy your parents. But like, Look, if you wanted a job, we'd love to have you. Immediately I was like, done 100%. And I didn't come back after after Christmas. And that was it. I literally I remember like sending in all my stuff that goes on Friday, the Saturday, I like said all my emails are canceled everything I pull completely out. And it was the best decision ever. And then started in January as a junior creative, which was weird, because that was the role actually, that I'd looked at, on the on on what I was Googling and looking at jobs and stuff started in January. And then I was there for three months before I even pulled me aside and said, Look, I've been given this amazing opportunity to go and build the agency over at la Bible, which is the biggest sort of social media platform in the UK. And he said, Do you want to come with me and do it? So I said, Yeah, why not? Like nothing to lose, really, and I loved him is amazing. And I thought, let's just go for it. So I went with him over to lad and I started there maybe like April 2016. I was there for a year and a half amazing time with like the best group of people. And we basically build agency up from, you know, myself will, James and in tune that. I think now it's like 2030 people was turning over 20 minutes pounds is doing really well. And we were really literally at the day one of us again, Crash Course fully got to the end of that time, and lovable and thought okay, so I'm 19 I've been in this industry for like a year and a half, two years, I've worked on a lot even though it's not the biggest amount of time I've done. So I've done a lot of different things and work with brands and partners, etc. So I had a bit of a grasp of, of how it kind of run and how it could work. And so I thought let me borrow that into my own company, which I did call roundabout, which was the Gen Zed agency was what I called it and it was myself and to others who actually interned with me. At lab I but we went off to do this and it was amazing, really fun time, about six months of just being out there on your own. Again, getting that crash course in like starting a business and how does that work and, you know, taxes and all that sort of stuff. But it just comes with have being a business owner that I had no idea before. And it was amazing. But over that time, we had about four or five different clients and the client that was the most fun and like this incredible business that I just almost felt like I'd stumbled onto this whole world was James Grant. So now they're known as wham up their talent management company, the biggest in the UK, one of the biggest in Europe at the time now it definitely is.
And they basically look after all of TV and entertainment in the UK. So everyone from an Ant and Dec Philip Schofield to Hollywood to be at the time paddy McGuinness even just all of TV. And then also some social at the time and music in the states and so on. But primarily it was sent him a division. So I went in and took on the role as, as chief creative officer in 2018, when Mary who's the MD asked me like, do I want to come over and basically do this full time. So I thought again, like what's it to lose the two other side done roundabout with they were like, You know what, it's been amazing. But we kind of want your own thing now anyway, and sort of spread our wings. And they're both off doing great stuff. Now it's Michael and Stefan. And then yeah, beginning of 2018. I started as the CTO of why mute while James gone there for four years. So much fun, like proper ride, obviously, we had like amazing growth things were killing it doing so so well. And obviously COVID came and happened. And that brought up some challenges naturally for every business, but it did for ours given we put so much stock into the lifespaces as most agencies and management companies did. So that was challenging and turn the company into more of a, you know, had to sort of survival survival mode, right, in a lot of ways. And that was that was challenging culturally, I've had my first baby with my wife, and it was just like, it was a lot during that period. That was a couple years ago. Now. But yeah, and then and then it got to the point where you know, it was brilliant, so much fun, loved it, but just had that itch to sort of do something a bit different. I think it was enough of an incentive given that it was so demanding from a time perspective and, you know, pressures and everything else alongside having a baby and my wife and everything I wanted to sort of, yeah, it was just if the opportunity was there for something that could could give me more of that freedom in terms of time from a time perspective, sorry, then I would look at it. And then that will actually happened and I a friend of mine, Aaron, who is a co founder, obviously as you guys know, of arcade. He, myself and him have been friends for a long time. He works with me at y mu in the accountancy side, we'd always stay close, I kind of work with him on his clients and help and yeah, we got going amazingly and then he went off to manage them ticked off his and then he came into contact with a guy called Sam, who was our third co founder he's they spoke and said, Hey, listen, you know let's all get on a call and we ended up getting on cool and saying look So Sam is like the YouTuber account and he looks after all of the biggest creators in the UK from an accountancy side. And he said that there's a real gap still in this market for people who are at the top end in this space can support these guys in their long long term brand building so not so much brand deals and transactional but how are we building them brands and building them a legacy and creating helping them to create the to execute on the big ideas that these guys have. There's so many amazing creatives out there, but no one's really supporting that that kind of long term creative executions were very transactional, the short term. So we came together and spoke to the Seidman boys, obviously, the biggest craze in Europe was a client of sans for seven years. And we talked to them and heard their ideas heard their vision, and realized that actually, we could help so you know, it kind of it was a pretty quick go and the guys like, Yeah, let's do it. Let's jump in. And we want you guys to manage us. So we did, and they had a one month notice period. Why don't you so that was fun. Hang on what like, I remember literally saying to people, yeah, I'm off next week, and people try what but as it as it goes sometimes all right. And then I started the first of April with Aaron, as well wasn't arcade at the time, it was called 916. Actually, that was the original name, but we can run with that for copyright reasons. But then we we basically went there and started with the boys and built out over the last year now we literally come up to a year next week. A bunch of projects that mean three being sorry, plus membership club X Expo COVID. Shops evoke brand, and then sides, which is a fried chicken concept. And yeah, they've been incredible to work with us, the three of us. And then also the sevens I've met have been amazing to work with. So much fun. And yeah, looking forward to year two, which is just around the corner. Awesome. So
did you always work with creators? Or was it a mix of creators and brands? Because you mentioned like you were working with brands? In your past experience? Was that, like on the business side? Was that on the creative side? And then also, was it intimidating? At that point? Like when you were first like working with them? Or was it like you're already super comfortable? You've already had experience? Like, take us back to that? Yeah,
sure. So So have I worked with creators before? So yeah, so pre weim You and James client, I've worked with quite a few creators in the through the prism of lab eyeballs. So we're the one of them. I've actually worked with the Seidman on a charity football match that they did in 2016, through sport Bible, so I've kind of met them and had a brief introduction to the madness of that YouTube world. And then during my time at lab, we had hosts, we had talent in and around what we were doing, obviously, but never in any management capacity was always from a publisher and editor or platform to the talent, that kind of relationship. And then obviously stumbling into James Grant, that was the the kind of the crash course in talent and the challenges of talent and the opportunity of talent, who met all the amazing things that come with it. And also, again, the challenges with it. And that was the blending between more traditional talent quote unquote, presenters, TV hosts, etc, to social creators. And one of my jobs there was to really future proof the business from a from a clientele perspective and a roster perspective and just to help everything stay relevant and current. So, you know, part of that was bringing in new talent and helping to, I guess, yeah, attract the next wave of creators and talent who crossover not into the into the traditional, but into the mainstream bracket, whatever that is. So for example, one of the clients I work with really closely was Amelia Oldenburg, who runs a show called Chicken Shep date, which has really had its users that had an amazing year, like this year, she's killed it. And you know, we've been working together somewhat with her now as part of why we but we were working together for for the whole time, I bought her across actually as a client back in the middle of 2018. Having weirdly worked with her with her little beloved lab, I've also been meeting her lad when we posted one of our videos, and it blew up and went viral. And I ended up meeting her then we stayed in touch. And this was when our show was like 20k, or something like she had a maybe I should maybe it's like under 100k. So it was really just sort of kicking off. And she just started season one. And now obviously, it's pretty, it's probably the biggest format on the internet, really, if you look at the numbers in terms of, you know, a music format like that, maybe the complex NECA shoppings. And those, those are the light coming, you know, sort of similar bracket, but as an independent show, not, not from a publisher, she's 100% Number one, but I can't think of anything else. And she you know, working with her was amazing that we ended up doing so much so many fun projects, one of which being the hot sauce tool, which was like a tool we did across the UK, we work with people like ah and Miss banks and all these people again, go on to do really cool things to them when and the like. And yeah, she was she's a good example of somebody who, you know, ended up helping sort of bring over was a bit of a different sort of client at the time didn't have much in the way of reaching profile but through her time with with Waimea and the wider management team was able to really shoot and do their thing. So I had that, that experience of sort of creatively and strategically working with creators and talent, but what I hadn't had is the management experience. So it's because I was more of a service for all the different managers so yeah, I guess going back to April, when we started working with the guys it was definitely was it intimidating? I think yeah, there was definitely a part of all of us which was like this is these guys are you know, are absolutely number one in their field and we can't let them download they it was more that it was more they've given us this incredible amount of trust, after having 10 years with a certain bureau with various different managers and teams everything else and they've given us that that trusted take them on this next chapter. And we need to repay that and make sure that we deliver. So it was very, it was more just like focus. And like we always say, like, you know, failure is not an option with any of these things in my mind, but it was definitely a kind of right, we need to really smash this and get this right for them. And yeah, I think that that, that created a really nice energy of focus, but also focusing in a way that wasn't through like fear or anything more it was based on wanting to really deliver. And that's partly why, you know, one of the things we were quite confident of was, you know, not talking so much externally and building out our brands for a while until we were sort of settled. And we, we done what we needed to do, like get the job, at least to a level. And then we can start, you know, doing the outreach, doing the networking, doing the sort of business development side of things, because actually, we knew that these brands, which you know, launching three brands in three months, or whatever it literally was like, it was pretty, like it was intense. It was crazy work because of the partners we have and everything else. But yeah, we knew we needed to focus and get that right. So that was part of the reason why we were we sort of stayed quite quiet, actually. And we didn't even really launch what we were doing until summer of last year. Partly because of that we wanted to make sure we actually delivered on some stuff. So yeah, and it feels like now we're in a really good position where, you know, we've got we've kind of got that base now. And we're just building out more and more things and trying to, as I always say, create more access points for as many different Simon fans and non fans as possible through the vehicle of the boys and their incredible brown. So, yeah,
yeah, no, that's awesome. Because it's especially being so young and so accomplished. Like for your age, a lot of people and I was talking to gab about this deal with like imposter syndrome. So even if you have like confidence, it's like, sometimes you struggle with oh, do I deserve this? Or can I actually do this? Do I have like the right experience for it? So it's like, nice to hear that. You just kind of push through that. And then you like focus on your end goal, rather than just kind of getting caught up in that feeling? So
no, thank you. I think yeah, I think that the imposter syndrome piece, I definitely. In any time we had, I didn't really have it so much. Over vital lab, I born into an extent when I was doing roundabout Not really because I think the whole sell or the product of myself, if you will, and this is how I how I framed it can quite an early, early on point was this piece around future proofing. So it's like hang on, I'm 1819 20 years old. And you know, my my brief is to help these businesses stay ahead. And therefore, because of purely my age, and my experience of of life really grown up in pop culture in the UK, I have a vantage point that is unique to myself, because I I you know, I am me in this time with that experience. And that's what people are buying. So it's the kind of that mindset actually did eliminate a lot of the imposter syndrome, because I knew that ultimately, that was the value that said, when I went to what I knew, and I was in this position that was like, you know, with the CEO and with with the empties everything else, and it was 20 Do that it definitely took a step. And it was the most amount of maturing, I think I'd ever done in terms of needing to learn my weaknesses. And it also really refined my approach. One of the challenges I definitely had was coming in is this, like, you know, I was founded by an agency and one of my own thing and, and you know, having to almost play the role of I know what I'm talking about, therefore, by me, if you will, what you have to do when you're a founder or a CEO of a business, especially in an agency space, you have to be a thought leader and everything else coming into their business that was a big corporate beast, a few 100 plus people and needing to navigate that and learn how to play, you know, play to move with people and not bulldoze and like not be so cocky and arrogant, or 20, or Blue was brought in because they knew what they were talking about, but needing to know that I didn't really know what I was talking about all the time at all. And that, you know, I needed to learn a lot more than I needed to tell people you know, I mean, I think that was a definite, it was almost like the kind of my internal reaction to impostor syndrome was to try and be really confident. And, you know, I knew I know what I'm doing, but in reality that alienated and became quite off putting for some people. And I know that was challenging. So that was something I had to really reconcile at the beginning of my time there. But yeah, having that experience, then, ultimately was the best thing that one of the best things that could have happened to me on a sort of personal professional level at that blend point because it meant I had to completely refresh my approach to dealing with people in business, and I learned so much through that. Probably more than anything, actually. I'd say.
Yeah, I feel like I'm still wrapping my head around. Like, really how incredible Your journey has been in such a short amount of time. Because like, right, like, over your journey, we're hearing like, lad Bible, like, you know, being like a chief creative officer. Major brand launches three major blant brand launches within like six months and stuff like bouncing from something like the biggest agencies, like in your country, talking with some of the best like thought leaders in your space and still like you're managed to stay so humble and so appreciative of all of like all the challenges and opportunities that you were served, like from the beginning, when you were telling us about like, you know, that classic challenge that we have when we turn 18. And you kind of you've looked at it your path. And so if you're looking at like I can go kind of which way? Like, I think it's such an under understated and underrated experience of like what that reality really is especially approaching the bench of the culture, like the creative economy like you did, like one of one of the first artists I worked for and stuff, they're called raise your flag. And I think we were dealing with a very similar challenge. And I think you did, it was how do we help youth find their dream career create the path and stuff not only for themselves, but longevity in their industries, without going to university or college? Because for us, I think we saw it from a similar perspective, the view of uni is going to give you a lot of really great, great education in theory and stuff about like thought leadership and like intentions and motivations. But the problem with that is that it really does Rob, you have the opportunity to contribute to the culture and the industry as it changes. Because the way we saw it was like, yes, you can go to uni, yes, you could go to college, within four years with a theory and the things you're learning in the industry is going to be obsolete by the time you get that diploma. And then what the right is like you're get to, you're learning about the industry, but you're not contributing to it. And it sounds like for you in your journey, like that was such a vital step for you. Because not only is that you clearly have a lot of not just I don't want to just describe it as like great ideas. It's like your motivation, and your intentions, create value for so many more people than yourself. And I can't imagine now and stuff like what your industry, especially in your country would look like had you not taken that first step. Right? Like you very much built, built culture for not only yourself and stuff, but for, as you said, like, seating it early and stuff lays the foundation and structure for all the brands coming in all the young people coming in all the industry thought leaders and stuff to kind of work off of what you do. And it's so it's so unfortunate that like, when you're staring at that pathway at 18, and stuff like a lot of us, we don't know that runway, and we also don't even know that it's possible. So like looking back at your journey, I'm like, it's, I wonder like, did you ever expect this coming?
I mean, do you ever take pause in that journey? You know, I think what you said what you've said, that is really, I mean, thank you, it's really common, I think, you know, it's, for so many people, and I'm very if there's one sort of issue, if you will, I end up grappling a lot with with people is this whole university thing I've had, I have a very good track record a good track record of convincing a lot of people to drop out or to leave. Because ultimately, as you say, the the whole system for anything in the creative space, really largely apart from some of the more technically refined areas, I think a realist, I really crave things or architecture or like being a doctor, wherever where you need. There's a real rulebook in the space like ours, where, you know, everything is being written in time, exactly, as you say, you know, for people who go and typically they don't go into it, they they study a degree that's not even close on, there might be a liberal arts or an English or whatever it might be, in order to then go back into a space like this, you're spending four years, three, four years, and a lot of money, it'd be different if it was free, but it's not I mean, different psychologically, if it was very, we spent a lot of money and time, the most important thing is time to learn, abstracted theories, opinions, maybe some some useful, some useful ideas, maybe I think less and less these days are my opinion. And then you're coming out the other end, without the time, which is the real value, even though you've been told that you need to spend the time learning and it's a complete inversion of reality, like the truth is, the time is the value and you learn through spending that time working in this space that you need that you want to be in. And actually, if I look back at all the things that have happened over the last six years, or however long it's been seven years now, you know, I've learned infinitely more through the the way that I learned about running a business was by running a business you know, I mean, now for the second time, the the way that I learned about dealing with people in business was through dealing with people with a company like why me the way I learned about talent was to working with talent like you it's getting in there and doing it and so I say to people constantly whenever they asked me for advice, and I've obviously spoken to magic quite a few different people over the years that really just getting on and you know something that when I was doing roundabout actually that was the time of sort of the vlogging in the business world peace and like Gary Vee was doing his thing and you know, the social changes even Bartlett were kicking on and they were really good kind of kept reference point to people who were doing it well. Gary Vee Gary Vaynerchuk always had a thing around like, you know, one is better than zero and I complete it was something that always really stuck with me that so many people never jumped from zero to one, either because they're trying to, you know, be perfectionist about it and get it to a point where they think it's 100%, right? Or they want everything mapped and perfectly in a line, so that they feel comfortable jumping, or I don't know, they, they have fear about it, whatever it might be. But actually, that first step is so much more valuable than theorizing for four years, trying to almost plan when you're going to take that first step to having more knowledge, which you don't really have. Because these courses are so as you say, outdated and out of touch. And that was my experience as well was the professors in the course and no disrespect to them, but it was so out of touch with the reality of the space. And they were talking as authorities. And these people were sat there losing their time, and that's more than any amount of money they could spend, quite honestly.
Yeah, and it's like that zero to one like concept. I feel like rings. So so true. And I wish more people understood that I feel like there's if they if at 18, they could teach that. Plus like that the fact that if you are looking to like develop a career or experience like in the Creator economy to understand like, the creative economy is the networked economy. Like if you are stuck in a cycle where you cannot allow somebody to mentor you and bring you into their network, or bring you to another another opportunity through their network for every 1212 week period, you never get to one, you will always be second. Like what that very, very slim window,
and then they'll not put as well actually about about networking and meeting people and being connected. And that's so key. It's kind of, you know, even switching a computer or you know, I mean, like that, the first step is actually loading up and being around it and meeting people and just immersing yourself in the space. And actually, whatever that means. It's like if somebody says, I'll have Obeah managers, like you find some Tiktok talent who are managing reach out and manage them, do you know what I mean? Like somebody, you know, if you say, how do I? How do I how do I do something that makes my CV stand out? And I think the first thing is that CVs are largely redundant nowadays, right? But the way you demonstrate yourself is through doing something that shows your skill. So for example, if somebody comes and says, Well, how do I 16 year old 17? Horses? How do I start to, you know, show my value? Because I want to go to a company and speak to them? Because I think I'm valuable, and I can add something? And I always say well look like the reality is why would anyone buy you ultimately, where what value Have you demonstrated to this point, and people I think, and I completely, I have so much sympathy because of this system, which has taught them that they have value through them spending four years in a classroom, ultimately learning about something. And in some industries, of course, that's the case we in this space, I can only speak for this space that I know, a bit of, you know, coming out the other end doesn't mean you have value to then be hired for 30k 40k is your starting child, which a lot of people think like, oh, well, I've got my degree. Now I've done these years. And now I should be able to walk into a creative role at a business. And the reality is no, if you've spent, you know, some of that time, let's say I'm launching a podcast, like starting a video series, like doing whatever interviewing people finding a way to demonstrate your skills through a proactive you know, format franchise concept that you could create the demonstrates all the things you want you want to you want to be doing, then that's ultimately going to take you 10 leaps forward because you're you're getting out and you're doing it and people who are hiring obviously want to see that not, oh, well, I've sat and done for years of degree and therefore I have value. But what value does that demonstrate other than you can spend four years in classrooms and maybe do write essays relatively well, maybe. And that's no disrespect to people who've obviously go through the system, but it's so fluid. And so to us in racing, really frustrated, because I see so much amazing talent, and people who I feel come out the other side almost feeling as if they've been lied to, and that you have been not to be wise, which is why you're gonna begrudge people too heavily, because I think they've been sold a pipe dream that ultimately is out of touch with with the way especially this industry works. And I speak for this, but I can't speak for everything else. I know that of course, for many professions that are more traditional, they follow the line, well, you have to you have to get those steps done. But in this space is exactly as you said in four years time, everything changes, while you're studying is not irrelevant by the time you finish. So go out there and just get on with it is my mantra.
Something I want to ask because you manage talent. Obviously, there's a lot of challenges that you face with that. How do you ensure that the boy's like motivation is still there? And how do you make sure like the brand gets stronger over the year as opposed to kind of dissolving because I know there was a time I don't know if it was necessarily real or not. But in 2017, they had some like, I guess beef between each other some people were gonna leave. So how do you make sure that everybody I guess, like feels heard stays motivated, and that you build a brand rather than it? Yeah, like crumbling down this
really good question. I think I think the fortunate thing about about us and working with them is that they have that system in place in a way so they've really worked on I think, since probably 2017, especially since they've started making more content together they do their assignments on the series, they now have three channels that they run alongside side plus and everything else that we've now kind of added on top of that and so I'm in clothing which was there before they have a real structure for efficiency and for managing themselves which makes it a lot easier because it's then owned by them in the sense they know is in the know what they need to do on a personal level to move and to get things happening and to sign things off and to make decisions, which makes our job as management 10 times easier, because they already have their internal systems in place, I think, you know, I can imagine, I don't know this, but with a lot of groups who maybe don't have that there's a missing, there's a missing leadership gap within them. And a sense of, you know, who's picking this up who's doing what, and I can definitely say, with the guys, they have that sense of, you know, being able to move on things, and to move on things efficiently. And then when it comes to motivation, you know, the challenge our side, and something that we're very cognizant, and aware of, is that there's only seven of them, and they only have so much time. And I think for us, it's more building these brands, not as much outlets, let's say or as variations on merch that, that almost tie them in. But for the long term future of these brands that should live on as independent entities without them. And as brands that hopefully can be even bigger than them, that's the the aim with everything that we do is can this be bigger than the whole, the sum of all the parties, you know, so, with that in mind, I think for us, it's building these brands away from them to a large degree, it's making it so that they are they, they are almost advocates and ambassadors for these brands, but they're not tied to them from a time perspective, because otherwise, we'd be we, we'd be really struggling. By definition of, there's only seven of them, there's only seven days, and it's only so much time they can give. And also for the long term value of these brands, you want to make them so that they are independent, and they feel and they operate as brands in their own right, which are plugged into and are born from and are supported by this incredible sort of central brands. So that's where I'd see it, it's almost building the things with with the reality of their time in mind. So we're not, you know, doing 20,000 sheets all the time. We're not We're not filling the dance cards, so to speak, but we're very aware that they need to have a life of their own. And the beauty of the boys is that these have come from them their brain trails or their ideas, they love them and believe in them and support them. But they support them as almost fans of the brand. Do you know what I mean? Like that's the dynamic, rather than them being the brand in every single way. Because otherwise, they can't really go off and do something they will always be kept, if you will, by by that that much reality. So yeah, that's definitely the mantra and I think hopefully that sets them up in a way that is is more future proofed.
Okay, so pivoting to that, because I actually was going to ask about that. Because with your different brands, and if you obviously I know that you leverage the boys in order to advertise for the brands but how are you also marketing so that it's its own identity? Like I know for your vodka brand? I think you were in like Russes, you know, video, like you were doing other things. So like, how do you do that? Like, how do you go about creating that marketing plan? And how do you go about making it so that you leverage the boys platform but not relying on them to kind of I guess, like, represent that brand to make that step? So
I think I think how we did exactly as you said, so for for go through some of the differences inside plus is obviously different. That is 100% them, right? That's them. And it's about engaging with their audience in a much deeper way and creating access points and so on. We just had our first in person event on the weekend, which was amazing had like 70 side plus members literally playing football with the guys like eating with them, it was just mad like seeing, seeing that can actually go but seeing that firsthand. And watching videos and seeing all the pictures was amazing just to watch that sort of relationship come to life through the membership club. But with X, X, X and sides, I think the strategy from a marketing perspective is exactly as you said, it's things like how are we engaging from xx x or x with the culture and with the culture in the UK? That is really pushing it, which is kind of grime UK rap that scene is mainstream music now. And how are we engaging with that space more effectively? Because that's where that's kind of the the natural movement for a vodka brand is to align with the most sort of hot, mainstream pop cultural scene that exists which is that scene in the UK? So how are we doing more in that space? How are we using the XX XX platform to support emerging sort of talent and artists and creators and so on? is a big thing for us. How are we leveraging and working with other talent as part of that as well, which is, you know, we've got some ideas and some plans in in that wider marketing plan around that and actually helping, you know, again, branching out to the point where there are more faces than more personalities. There's more, more around the brand. We've recently announced a partnership with strawberries and cream Festival, which is a festival in the UK in Cambridge, which should be fun, we're going to have like an x x presence there. And we're going to be the vocal partner for the for the festival, which is amazing. Things like that. It's tapping into cultural institutions, events, artists, creators talent, but all not through again, that prism of the sidemen but through the prism of x x, which is a standalone entity and needs to be treated as such. So that's definitely and I think a lot of is that mindset and once that mindset is there, that this is a standalone brand that the boys have birthed and created, but ultimately it is to live on and go off into audiences. You don't know who the side men are. That's the mindset of everyone working on it. And then actually every decision becomes quite easy in a way because you know, you're just moving with that and mind that it's not a merch, like this isn't much. And that's the principle to stand their business. And then for sides, who besides it's about scale and about growing, and I think they've interesting about food business and learning and especially in a in a ghost kitchen business and we have an amazing partner, virtual hero, who are who are sort of owning all of the food and the operational side of things we deal with primary marketing and everything else that comes with that. But is the fact that most discovery comes through the apps themselves, like delivery, just the Uber, UberEATS, etc, a lot of the discovery actually comes from the apps. So it's about us being in as many cities as many places as possible, scaling, scaling, scaling, getting into as many households as we can. And then actually, if the food's really good, people will, will be attracted to the brand or will discover it through these platforms. And then they'll develop that cocktail. And we're only five, four months in five months, and maybe it launched beginning of December. So when we're not really far into this, but actually the scale has already been rapid. And we've literally just getting going the aims to get to about 200 stores by the end of the year, we're about 20 to 25. Now, I think, have off, we have our first physical site, we're launching in the states soon, in 40. The aim is about 4050 sites to begin with, so we're really going for it. And it's great. We launched in Norway to the end of the month. I don't know if I should say that. But that's coming. And we're expanding and expanding. And you know, there's other countries on the horizon, too. So we're really, really looking to build out the map. And the idea is to get into as many countries as possible, as many cities in the UK as we can. And in doing so we should, again, continue to reach fans beyond that Sideman bracket. And also making sure the marketing isn't again, based around the boys, it's about the food, it's about the sources. There's links to the boys like the seven sources, which is the driving force of the brand, but we're not basing it in a way that is too reliant on on them as individuals.
Yeah. It's so interesting. It's, it's interesting, because it sounds like you guys are approaching building brands like you are like raising kids. Like, right, I would say, but raising kids like in the right way, because I think there's a failure. And I think we've probably seen in our own lives of the people that we've met who maybe this was their reality of parents who want to raise like mini me's exactly as they are exactly what their what their experience was in that. And so we see like these founders or brand owners wanting to create mini me's, this is me, this is my brand. But I think that you've really unlocked something incredibly smart about raising brands like children, where you're expecting them to grow and be their own person, go out in the world and scale and and find their place in the world find their new value that isn't just serving their parents, right. It's them creating a network and like a network effect of their own, and finding where they need to be what I guess we can think of it as like product market fit, but realistically, it's stuff like creating legacy for themselves and meeting for themselves as opposed to just being the, the the what does it brainchild?
No, I love that. And I think I hadn't actually thought of that before. But I think that's absolutely right, the way we're, I've two babies over a two year old and a 778 month old Now well turn a bit your name. And it's funny because actually, it's you're right, it's almost you want them to be there and people you want them to grow and to develop with agency and with autonomy rather than being super controlled and have to conform to you know, us as parents. I think it's the same thing with this really good analogy because actually for these brands, yeah, the aim is that they are you know, from the world of the Cybermen from the boys, but they're not the boys like this should. It should really, ultimately if we've done our job, be reaching people who have no idea who the Cybermen are, but they know what xx is or Ember, that's when we've we've won I think we had no idea who terminal but we love sides. Oh, wait, hang on NASA Simon's brand. Like that needs to be the thing. And when that happens, I think we'll be in a position where, okay, this has really done well, because if you think that their audience is so big, and they've done so well to cultivate that over so long, but you know, you're scratching the surface on who you can reach by making it encased within that following I think when even in my past life of why I'm even speaking to people, when they're working with talent and brands, it's always about okay, well, here's the talent. And the whole marketing is the talents, socials, and you know, you're expecting a percentage of conversion, or however much conversion from that amount. And that's for me the wrong way of thinking about it. It's more like no, you have their their advocacy, their support, yes, you will reach some of their audience, of course, but it shouldn't be all based around that it shouldn't have its own completely independent approach. And it's almost a bonus. You get to access that audience. But imagine we were starting in the way we see it is both of these brands sides and execs have started on day one. Imagine you didn't have the sidemen imagine they weren't even involved. How would you build it? And then the bonuses you've got the incredible Springboard incredible audience in the in the eyeballs that they bring, but that's a bit that should be seen as a bonus, not the driving strategy. And I think for too many brands, it's the other way around and then you end up getting capped. For my experience.
Yeah, Yeah, no, totally. And it's, it's, it's almost like a weird brand fear, I think that they get it wrong, they don't see that as like the parent relationship, like you get to, you get to inherit the resilience and support of your parents and stuff like when you when you get to work with a creator like that, and then some brands get freaked out that Oh, but what if our brand becomes too much of a creative? Like, I think yeah, like the right creator isn't going to suck you into their world, they're gonna give you that resilience and support, and they want you to go off they want you to, to build out on your own. That relationship is beautiful, when it's there and stuff. But it's not meant to be per se forever, like you're gonna grow and evolve. And that's what that was. What is it that resilience and stuff over time?
Absolutely. And you know, one thing as well, right, the boys are very open, they're not going to toggle is not going to last forever, right? They will be around for as long as they want to be and there will come a time when they don't want to be because they want to do other things might be married, have kids, whatever they might want to do complete something completely out completely separate. And we don't know when that might be it might be in five years and 10 years or 20 years, I don't know. But we do know is these brands will carry on living beyond them. So they must, must must this is so important for me. And for all of us working on this, they must think beyond the Seidman because ultimately they will not be here forever. But x x there's no reason why can't sighs there's no reason why it can't challenge a KFC in time, right? There's no reason why we've spent, you know, four months with this brand out there. And you know, the socials are much bigger than a lot of the other comparables in the space, right, we've got a note we've got, you know, hanging amazing numbers, the scale of the of the sites and the growth and the love for the food is amazing. And actually, there's no reason why me like why can't challenge any of these bigger brands. And I think in that sense, you have to think like those big brands have, which is that they are not tied to one person or one, you know, one group but they are universal. And it's also why we chose fried chicken partly, the boys love the food, of course and their massive chicken brands have to do with men who surprised if they may know him. You know, they've not hidden that. But you know, it was also a strategic in that fried chicken is so loved everywhere. It's like so universal. So how do we build a brand that can reach as many fans as possible, and then as many people as possible, is to create a product that is universal. That's why we've got vegan options. Obviously, that's huge. Everything has a vegan option on the menu. And yeah, it's just it's interesting because exactly you say we want to really think beyond the Seidman with everything we do otherwise, I don't think there's much point for them to be doing it quite honestly.
So when you're creating the brand's like underneath, I guess like the assignment portfolio? Is it you guys pitching to the boys, the boys pitching to you? Like how does the ideas come to life? And like how do you all you use? Explain how you picked like the fried chicken venture? But how did you pick like vodka? You know, why vodka? Why not tequila? Why? Like, why those? Well,
so So both of those brands. So it's funny, the first time we ever sat down with with the guys, we said, okay, what are all the ideas, these are, this is a dump of all the things that you may want to do from our perspective. And they came back like, hey, here are all the things we do want to do, right, some of them match, some of them didn't and a lot of these ideas they'd had for quite a long time. And we went through all the ideas and they voted on a list. And then again, the system that worked really well Supreme Court of the Seidman like for majority, and it's done so. So it's like, it works. It's how it's how it goes. And the the top two ideas that they've had for a long time but never really executed was an alcohol brand and a food brand and a food concept that was like this. So these are the top two priorities for them. And they've had these concepts for a while and they COVID had the name sides for a long time. They remember there's a story of them being in the back of a car and they will come up with all the different puns you can create using the word side, there's actually a lot of them right. And they could all be cool different concepts and ideas and sides as a food brand was one they'd always had. And so when we started developing these ideas, and we you know, we asked, you know, what food do you guys love the concept was something they loved. But the actual menu and everything else it was then Right? Well, we will have chicken that is our number one. And not only is event number one is also the world's number one food fried chicken. So again, natural moves. So that's how sides kind of came up came about was they wanted to create a food brand, they love chicken. It's also strategically a very smart food item to run a business on because it's so universal. So everyone's like, Okay, this makes sense. Let's do it. And then with X ray x, it was always a thing of, we love going out with a partner, we love going to festivals, clubs, etc, we would love to see our own bottle in an ice bucket, or behind a bar, or we'd love that. That'd be amazing. It's just a moment. And you know, of all the drinks like bulk was one of them. I think that you know, they all have different practices as you can imagine the seven of them. But vodka was a drink, they all agreed on, they will love. And so with our partner hero, same partner on the different side of the business, we thought that would be really good first place to start. And also given that the space doesn't have that many players in it. And if we could get up and running then you know, you've seen what some of these other big brands can do. It can be really exciting actually in terms of scale, and the opportunity is massive. So yeah, that's how that came about. But both of those concepts spilled from them and came from them having had them either A long time ago or more recently and then asked basically Okay, let's take everything you've done and let's push it forward and start to get them ready to get out there.
That's wild and so okay what would what is your dream sidemen partnership or venture and why and so if I'm going to ask you this this one's coming to you to think think of your answer here
so dreams I'm venture partnership
Yeah, the next one or just like absolutely like head in the clouds. That's the that's the biggest one or the one that you want.
I think it's really hot I think I think I'd love like I would love to get support. So recently I've been really inspired. There's been so many cool, like some of the luxury car space in some Tesla luxury car space. We're doing really cool things so like Mercedes obviously they do if you saw they did a partnership with with ASAP and org and then Porsche did a partnership with Sean Weatherspoon, Weatherspoon. He's obviously the shoe designer, and the gentleman, so there's been really nice days you can imagine, like, eventually imagine like the Seidman Rolls Royce or Simon like belly like real kind of coming together words like that type of thing could be really cool and not even talked about that. And they might be laughs at you not like that type of thing. Like in the luxury, moving into the luxury space to some, some degree would be really nice and a big partnership with with one of those brands in the car space, there'll be a car fans or even in sort of, you know, the sort of high fashion space watches, maybe that sort of stuff would be really cool. I mean, this is me brainstorming again, the Supreme Court decided they might say absolutely not, but that would be a really nice, I think longer term partnership, they. And then I think from a brand perspective, I actually don't know I think with these two brands, you know, there's so much that can still be done, like what is the evolution of sides? from a product perspective? How many more things can we create from that? Same side plus, same with x x x? I can't really think beyond it really. So yeah, but I think definitely a partnership with a luxury partner in either the auto auto space or in the sort of the kind of high end goods but he's to be really cool, just for a position perspective and just seeing like, like what they've done like the ASAP org stuff. I think it's been amazing. That type of thing would be really just fun, I think to work on maybe it's just me being creatively like, I'd love to work on it, maybe I don't know. But um, but yeah, that's, that's
wild, okay, if I know like are out in the in the court, the superior part of the Seidman that if I can vote, I would definitely throw my weight behind like a Rolls Royce like Seidman like partnership, because when you think about it, like, for me, I'm a bit of a card nerd when it comes to culture, like the way that cars and Rosen's have have their effect on culture. And, you know, when we think when I think a lot about UK culture and stuff, it's incredible what the relationship in the impact that like Aston Martin and James Bond has had, how many bonds have we had over over the past few decades? tons. The story is legendary. We always associated with like Aston Martin's, right. But it speaks to a very, a very different type of UK culture that has evolved since then, and substituted to see as at least quintessential quintessential boys and stuff who have great or who are captains of culture and themselves, partner with like a luxury brand, and stuff and be able to create, like, essentially a new and new era of, of cultures of the way that that Bond did definitely,
just on that foot. Actually, that's a really good point. Very appropriate very quickly. So I'll say one of the things we are thinking about with x x, with all about studying is this sort of idea of new British heritage. It's like what is the new What's the new with the new leaders in the UK? And the boys honestly, they don't get their flowers and often the mainstream that's one thing that, you know, they've always experienced this thing where people don't get it, right. And they're kind of like, oh, you know, it's one of those things ask ask you ask your child like anyone under the age of 25 that he knows who the side men are, but there's still a thing amongst the slightly traditional mainstream space that just doesn't quite get it. And it's like when it's interesting because because actually, they are probably the biggest celebrities in the country. Really, if you went down to if you ask the majority people of any age bracket and especially in the younger age bracket though, right? Who are these guys? They know them of course they are they get it's one direction level of kind of hype and mania around this brand. And it's like and they don't you know, I think that's where some partnership like that would really position it nicely and position them nicely as being the leaders of the space which they are but having that alignment with really kind of cement that show that think in a cool way. So maybe one day
Yeah, awesome. I guess for me, just like having known the Seidman like even whatever throughout the years, maybe something like their own video game and gaming sport maybe like a stadium or like a soccer league or like us called football but something along maybe something along those lines and oh god you had an idea to
Yeah, I think in my in my mind my dream. I think this was a partnership instead of a venture but ya know, ideally and stuff at birth, you know its own interest. hadn't independent venture after that. It's like I would love to see more of a Seidman Netflix partnership, because what I think that the Seidman do so well as we're talking about is like developing cultural identity and yourself not only as like an audience member and stuff and like what you love as if and what they do. Because for me, I feel like the Creator Academy in the networked economy is almost like learning a language. You have to practice it. And there's so many different dialects in there. And it can be really intimidating if you don't practice it bit by bit or find the small words that you understand. And then you build on your understanding and then that context and then you develop culture yourself because you're speaking the language and the other people you're speaking to, is speaking the same language you do. I love Netflix so much. And they are absolute powerhouses. Like bringing out some like the best stories, but there's so much coming out. Now there's such volume, like, I can't keep up with it. And so if the Seidman ever did like, almost like their own spin on like, Netflix, like exclusives, like I would love to see Vic, like, do an episode and stuff where he's like on Formula One, or like following the career route and stuff or like assignment and stuff doing bridgerton and stuff like introducing people and stuff. There's not a whole world right seeing their spin on it. Because like, I think it's like Mr.
Beast spin, right? Like he did good games that was younger than squid games.
Exactly. Right. It's because I think assignment also do remix culture. So well. And it's almost like live testing, right? It's like, you see where your spin and your culture goes on something mainstream. And then you make it your own. And then ideally, like witness Ruby's like, you make it better. And I think like, that's how that language evolves. And so like, that's in my mind, dream.
Love it. For me. I'll share that. So it's really nice. Yeah. No, it's really good. That's really cool. I think. Yeah, the idea is I hadn't thought that too much. But the premise of, of Yeah, remains to coach but also, yeah, they are the bridge for such a huge amount of people now into entertainment. And I think actually, yeah, how do they open doors for those people to see new things and to enter new spaces? And yeah, I think that's really nice. Love it.
If you had to describe the journey you've had building arcade media, and having the having the appearance that you've had to say to your 10 year old self?
What would I say? I would say? Go with it. And I'd say it's Yeah, I think go with it. I'd say the whole thing is just a ride. Don't stress it. Just Just go with it. Keep learning. Never think you know anything, because I know, genuinely No, I know very little. But amazing people around you who can teach you that's the that's the main thing I'd say. But, but above all, it's just write it and enjoy it. Because I think people put so much pressure, especially the sphere, so much pressure on themselves to kind of do a certain thing in a certain way as it all harks back to what we were saying before, and in reality, I think we're not in control. So just go with it. And take what comes I think that's been my mantra so far. And it's worked out nicely. But yeah, I've not put any, any more pressure than there's enough pressure, like, nevermind ourselves. So yeah, go with it. Awesome.
Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It was such a great episode. It always takes like a different turn than what we expected. But like, those are the best episodes in my opinion. But yeah, like where can people find you like plug your socials where
the main one is LinkedIn, I recently turned my Instagram back on just because I've been doing more and being more active, but as Jordan at Jordan Schwartz. And then LinkedIn, can't remember but search my name. My last name is very long. So it comes up. If you can learn we'll be bothered to spell it. So yeah, Jordan Schwarzenberg. And then and then if you've got an arcade media, you can find me as well. Yeah. Thank you guys for having me. It's been a lot of fun.
All right, so another great episode in the books. What do you think?
Yeah, I think this one was definitely one of my favorites. Always love talking to just diverse brands, like different people, especially like Jordans from the UK. So it's so interesting to note, like, What's going on over there. But I think what was super important in this episode was just the importance of like, unconventional pads like, Jordan, super young. He's only 24 years old, and he's so accomplished, like to be able to manage the sidemen at such a young age. It's just, it's something that a lot of people don't have the opportunity to do in their lives or like, you know, even later in their lives. So definitely a big challenge, but a huge opportunity for him. I think it's important to note too, it's like, I feel like because when you're young you think you have to follow a conventional path, like go to school, you know, get like a typical nine to five but Jordan was so brave because he realized like that wasn't necessarily what he wanted to do. There's so much he wanted to explore and accomplish and rather than just kind of following the path everyone else says to kind of follow what society expects from you. He forged his own path, and I think it's super important. especially when you're young to do that, like, you know not to just do what everyone else is doing. But if you're interested in something like learn more about that topic, talk to people in the space, like, the power of networking is so huge. I don't think so many people realize like, it's yeah, you obviously need to know about what you're doing and to be educated. But you also need to know the right kinds of people, because that can really open up doors for you. So kudos to Jordan, because I just I love talking to people, especially when they're super young and, and accomplishing so much. It's just such an honor to see. So I think for me, the biggest take, or one of the biggest takeaways was the importance of like, those unconventional paths that you can take and just forging your own path and and learning what you want to learn.
Yeah, no, I think you I think you nailed it. Because the Creator economy is not one of those industries, where several decades of experience equals success, like a lot of other industries are like, in fact, with the Creator economy, it's participation equals success. Creation equals success, networking with people, empowering other people equals success. And I think you're totally right that Jordan not only came in at the right time, but he knew to create value wherever he went. I think that in our discussion today, and he really does highlight a really interesting issue. How do you break out of that classic cycle that a lot of creators go through, where they start grassroots, they built an incredible following the great a great product, but then they're hit with the problem of like, what happens when their passion isn't the same anymore? Or what happens when their community ages out of the mission that they started off with? It's really, really hard to predict longevity of a creator and their brand, because we just haven't seen it. But I think what Jordan is approaching is very, very smart. They're not only leveraging the communities that the segments have already developed, but creating brands that can stand alone, live their own lives and take on their own cheapens forms, wherever the crater economy might take them.
Yeah, like the fact that Jordan is doing advertising, like, I think what they're in Russell's music video, like the behind the scenes, like they're taking action, to really make it a standalone brand. Because you're right, like a lot of people don't realize, like, yeah, you could be a big creator and have a brand under you. And you obviously want to make sure to lie, especially if you're branching off and starting it under, like a certain brand or certain creator, it needs to align with that person's brand. But you also want to make sure it stands the test of time, like what happens, like God forbid, if the Simon break up, what happens to those brands is those brands crash and crumble, like, especially for someone like Georgia, and he's not just managing them, he's managing those brands underneath, he needs to make sure that they stand the test of time. So I really do admire their forward thinking, in terms of like making sure that this stands alone, yes, leveraging their name, obviously, it's smart to leverage their name for advertising and to, you know, generate brand awareness, but making sure not just depending on that, like making sure you're covering all your bases and ensuring that this is a brand that can be enjoyed, like maybe even people who don't care or necessarily follow the Sideman, like, also, you know, enjoy this branch who maybe they like hear about it somehow through them, but then just enjoy it because they enjoy the product. Not necessarily also because they're fans of the Seidman. So I think that's important. Yeah,
I'm gonna I'm gonna make a hot prediction, right now that the brands that we're going to see that will stand the test of time, over the next decade, or they're going to be the ones that really transcend generation to generation and they give it like a meaningful moment to them. Oh, yeah.
100% And even if you look at other creators, like if you know, Emma Chamberlain has Chamberlain coffee like, obviously it made sense for her because she's if you follow her, she's she's another credit in the space. She's huge on just a coffee lover. So for years, everyone knew her as a coffee lover. So when she made a like a coffee brand, people knew would be good, because she was so picky. But it's not also like, she also did a great job to making sure it's a standalone brand, because people just love the coffee. It's like, it's not even necessarily because of Emma, it's like yeah, people love Emma, so they'll try the coffee but it's just people just love the coffee brand itself as well. So yeah, maybe having that idea born from the Creator but like making sure that you make it a standalone brand that it's not just you know, based off of Emma's brand or just based off of the Seidman brand, but that it also stands the test of time. So super, super important and super huge, especially for the crater economy now and the way of the future. So yeah, I really really enjoyed this episode. That's a wrap for us. Thank you guys so much for joining and for tuning in this episode is such a great one. You guys know the drill. If you want to follow our journeys, make sure you You follow hashtag paid H A SHTAG paid at on Instagram and Twitter. Stay tuned. message us reach out. And yeah, we'll see you guys next time for another amazing episode. If you guys have any suggestions for people you want to see on the podcast, feel free to reach out and yeah, we'll definitely keep that in mind. So, without further ado I will see you guys next time. Bye