DTC growth Show. Welcome to the DC growth Show presented by banknotes minted by hashtag pay. My name is Ian. Today I get to chat with Sam particular founder of Fox pups is a new puffs brand. Thank Cheeto Puffs putting away more flavors than just we'll talk to Sam about how he's trying to create a new iconic snack brand. And he's doing it in a really fun way. Thanks for joining us, Sam.
Yeah, happy to be here.
Awesome. Awesome. So I'm really excited to talk to you have you seen Phillips on? On Twitter for a bit people talking about it people in the CPG space, I've been lucky enough, I've gotten to try them. So tell us about Philips and how it started and what the idea behind it was and just kind of give us the over arching idea of of Philips.
Yeah, for sure. So I think with Philips, it was the coalescence of two trends that I noticed in the market. And I've been working in CPG for a while at Harry's, and Harry's lab. So like my job was to figure out what new brands Harry's could launch under its umbrella. And so like spend a lot of time just like thinking about trends in CPG. And what I noticed specifically in food and beverage and snacks was two things. One was that, you know, every new brand was using health claims as their differentiating factor. And that is great up until the point where there's like 25 Different brands in the same category doing the same thing competing for the same shelf space at Whole Foods. And the second trend, I noticed was in puffs specifically which is the market that falsifying and is that all these brands are differentiating from Cheetos based on health claims. But at the same time, like Cheetos is not a puffs brand. It's a cheese brand. And if you look at what they're doing beyond just like the crunchy Cheetos are the Cheetos puff, they'll have a spicy flavor that's cheese based. And then they'll do things like you know, seasoning collaborations with a mac and cheese or a popcorn or things like that. So like they're a cheese brand. And so I thought it was it would be really interesting to build a brand that's a puffs brand that isn't just focused on cheese. And so with that kind of like flavor and positioning insight, combined with the insight of like, Why is every new brand healthy, we kind of came up with this like, well, what if we say we're not healthy? What if we do everything that people aren't doing today? And how could that live as a brand? That's where it kind of it came from?
Yeah, that's a super cool. Um, I mean, I think there's there's a ton to unpack there in terms of the the transparency authenticity piece of not being, you know, we're not healthy, but then also like, almost like a new vertical, like, you're you're spot on, like puffs are, you know, Cheetos or cheese. And you guys have such an assortment of flavors. So I guess first, like, what's been the reaction to the transparency aspect? Like, is it that people are reacting well to that? So it's like, Hey, we're not healthy. I mean, the website stays pretty well, like, we're not particularly unhealthy. We're just not saying we're healthy.
Right? Yeah, that's exactly right. Like, we, the way I'll put it is people either really like us, or they really hate us. And that's exactly where you want to be as a brand. Like, I don't think as an emerging brand launching, you want people to feel indifferent. You want to evoke an emotional reaction one way or the other. And whether it's like the name, which people will mispronounce as F ups or something, versus a saying not healthy and people saying, Why are you doing this? Like we know, it's like, not healthy? Like why would you ever explicitly say that? I think it's the point is like to be a little bit ridiculous and absurd and get a reaction? I think you have to do and I think with us, like the on the transparency point. We went into product formulation saying, I'm not giving my r&d People any constraints on health claims, just like make a product and maybe at the end if we want to make a claim we can. And so when I told that to the branding agency I worked with they said well, what if you just actually make an anti health claim? And say if you're not if you're not actively trying to make a claim, then what if you actually say that to people say we're not healthy? Like we almost even put like things like not vegan not gluten free not dairy free like on the packaging instead of not healthy, but ended up just like not healthy was just like a little bit, a little bit cleaner. So with that,
so however you want to go into product development a little bit you guys have, like there's a sour cream and onion, there's the sea salt, there's a Salt Vinegar. There's like a cinnamon one that I've seen so far. Those are like amongst the ones that I've seen. So it's almost me almost like kind of going down like the potato chip, almost vertical. So like we're we're wherever you come up with the flavors and what do you think's coming next? Yeah, there's
a bit of art and science. So like I went into it, knowing that we were going to differentiate on having flavors, we had to have, in my mind somewhere between four and six flavors to launch. I think if we only had three then like, are we really a credible like flavor brand? Like maybe not. And if we had more than six, like, that's just an operational nightmare that I probably couldn't afford at this point. So ended up doing five because if one didn't work, then we could go down to four. And so we approach it like you're right, like it's for the savory side of things. We approach it as if like, what are the popular flavors, so we knew we had to have a cheese as one of them. Just because like that's kind of like what I call like the gateway flavor of people are so used to puffs being cheese flavors that you kind of have to have at least one to get people interested, get the foot in the door, and all that. And then for the next two savory ones, we have salt and vinegar and sour cream Etonian and yeah, Chip flavor. So we consider doing a barbecue, which was really good. But we had to make a cut. And I just like, I like salt and vinegar in Sacramento anymore. So like, it was kind of one of those like, there's like the science to it. But then there's the art of being like I'm a solo founder, I'm just gonna make this call. When the the other thing that's different about us is we have sweet flavors. So we have Cinnamon Toast Crunch inspired flavor, and a flavor we call instant hot chocolate. And the chocolate one in particular is like, probably the most out there thing we have. It was originally like the intent was to make us more and like have like a, a, like a graham cracker puff. But that was a little bit aspirational for like what is actually possible right now, maybe in the future. And so in again, like it was like we had this like governing factor of like, we want to launch multiple flavors. If we're going to be credible in the sweet space, we need to have at least two. And so did some consumer research and some survey work to really figure out like, what could those two be? And then in terms of what some down the pipe, we've got, we're about to kick off like some real product development soon. We've already been talking to some folks doing survey work just like seeing what people are interested in. I think what we've heard from consumers is like a spicy flavor would be really interesting. And so that's definitely on my mind. And then there's a couple approaches we can take to it. Specifically, like as a DTC brand that's kind of trying to go into retail, how do we keep DTC special? Well, new flavor drops is like a way to kind of like keep that channel interesting for people. And so what we're going to do is bash, develop about six to 10 new flavors at some point this winter. So we have like the formulations all ready to go. And then like once a month, once every other month, we'll drop a new flavor. And kind of like keep things exciting. And if things do well, then we'll keep them in the regular rotation. And we can bring him to retailers and say we just dropped this new flavor. If it's a retailer in the northeast, we can say, you know, all of the people who are buying this are right in the vicinity of your store. So this could be an interesting one to launch with you. And so that's kind of how we're thinking about new flavor
development. Yeah, that's awesome. Before we get into, like, the marketing and distribution and the creative and everything, which I think is amazing. I think your website is so cool. Like, one thing we probably should have touched on the beginning is like, what is it about the puff? Right? Like it's something? Where have you always been a fan of the puff? Like, were you big Cheetos fan growing up? Or was it just like, Yeah, we talked to talk about that a little bit. Yeah,
I think there's a couple things of like, why did I choose puffs and like at first I, I wasn't 100% Sure. I knew I had this like not healthy insight that we talked about. And then like the Puffin side, I talked about kind of came second. But for me, like, it's just like, I think I like eating, and I wasn't always in the mood for cheese. And so that's kind of like where like the idea of that as the category started to really, you know, build a little bit in my mind. And, you know, going back to like my time at Harry's labs, one of the things we would always do is like very deep category research to really understand like the trends and what we thought made it a category attractive version or not. And one thing I always like to see in a category that I would go into was, how consolidated is it? And depending on like, you know, the other thing that's interesting about puffs is that unlike other snack categories like IRI and Nielsen in your monitor, like all have like little different definitions there so like, to me in this is kind of because Cheetos is a cheese brand. Like is it our puffs, cheese snack? Are they a puff? Like what like, what category are they so it's like, all right, like, you know, depending on what data you look at, either we're kind of inventing a flavored puffs category, so to speak. Or we're entering a category with one super large player that controls over 50% of the share, which means in my mind, they can't be all things to all people. And so that means there are different opportunities and ways in to really like chip away at that and find even if it's like a medium sized niche like 10% of a really large category is a massive brand and puffs that's like a multi 100 million dollar brand and revenue so to mean like, I just think that's really interesting of like, you know, in, in food and beverage like specifically in junk food, like, I don't love using the term pain point because like, we're talking about like eating snacks on the couch, like, you know, they have pain points they're like, Yeah, but I think what the consumer data told us was, you know, over 85% of people who eat pasta regularly, and don't care about health claims. wish there were more flavors beyond cheese. Sure. And so it's, it's kind of like a, a, I guess, like aspiration point of like, they want more flavors, versus like the pain point of like, they're there sounds like they're so dissatisfied with Cheetos, but it would be cool for them if there was something else. Yeah,
no other options. Yeah, that's interesting. So let's talk about the creative in the website, what really sticks out to me is that, you know, in a world of byens, and every Shopify site or big commerce site, or whomever kind of looking the same, you guys are anything but, and to our listeners, like, for no other reason, like go to the flip site, to just check out the creative and how cool it is. But um, so talking about, like, how that came about using the POF, almost as like a mascot. And just like the simplicity of it, I mean, I really love like, at one point on the site, there's directions on how to eat and it's like, literally like step one, open mouth, step two, put put puffy and mouth. So just talking about the simplicity of it. But also, I mean, there's tons of colors, it's easy to navigate. It's super interesting. Just talking about that process.
Yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun. I worked with day job on this one. They're an incredible studio that's putting out a ton of cool work. They did both the brand development, starting from naming all the way to designing the entire brand world. And then they built out the website with me as well. So I think first and foremost, like all credit to them, they are exceptionally crazy thinkers. And what what I did specifically as we were like working on the project was basically say, like, you guys have no constraints, do whatever you want. And let's see what happens. And of course, like, you know, there's the one and then we kind of like rein it in. But that's kind of been my approach with branding is just like, I'm not a branding expert, or any I'm hopefully I'm on my way to getting there and and learning from people. But if I'm going to hire an agency to do the work, like hire the agency to do the work, and you know, don't put unnecessary constraints on them. So actually, it's funny, you mentioned the mascot, like when I was like giving them the brand brief. I was like, yeah, like I don't know, if I really want the brand to have a mascot. That was like the one ask I had. And then of course, like, they presented me an offer with a mask. And I was like well actually really liked that. So let's do it. Which is just like, you know, that's just like the funny anecdote of you know, how you think you know what you want until you actually see something different. And I think yeah, like what what sets us apart is we purposely chose a design direction that's really simple like if you look at our website if you look at our packaging, there's not much there beyond like on our packaging it says like Philips tasty tubes not healthy and the flavor and like that's it it's super simple, but what we strive to do is in that simplicity be absurd and really let the copy do the work which is which is risky from a brand perspective like it's it relying on copy can be hard, but we made a conscious effort and decision early on to really just like focus on copy and let that plus the simple design shine and luckily I feel like it's worked
you I feel like you've definitely taken a patient your time at Harry's in terms of like the entire customer experience as now a customer of Philips like even when I received it in the mail and noticing the box had like the the branded packing tape. Yeah. So like
this is a nice little hack because putting the stuff on the actual box is super expensive but the tape was not that expensive so like a lot of brands you like you see like focusing so much on unboxing and like all this like little custom stuff and I was like that's expensive like we're not venture backed so just did a put the tape on with the color like the little blue tape and it seems just the same as you know a good unboxing of other brands.
Yeah, yeah, it is a good experience. So let's talk about you know, distribution and channels right now your your DTC via this site. You there's like some different kind of boxing options in terms of like a variety pack or just picking one or whatever and then I noticed you are working with musher have multiple but at least one like snack box kit of sorts, like So talk about that talk about like, how that's gone. And then what's what's the future you've already talked about? Maybe you know, I'll space Brino being going retail a little bit. So So talk about where your head is with that. Yeah, so
we're DTC as a launch point. We're unstack magic we are on actually all Foxtrot market locations plus about I think 17 other independent shops so I think it's like 38 doors total. And when we launched this thing, we're like, this is gonna be EDTC for a year, and then we're going to figure out retail think the reality is we're selling snacks on the internet, that's like not the most natural way for people to buy snacks. So I think for us, if we want to be as iconic as Doritos, or Cheetos or Pringles, the only way to do that is to be in the store. And so for us, we think growth is really going to come from getting retail distribution, but doing it like in a thoughtful way. So it's not like we're going to be like, Oh, we're gonna go into, you know, 10,000 stores next year, like we're going to try to roll out deliberately. Because we do have a really cool website, we have a great DTC experience. And, you know, we want to keep that special. And use that kind of as our like, we're a modern brand that has a way for customers to buy online and engage with us online and be super active on social media and use that as a way to drive people to the website, if nothing else, to learn more about the brand and be aware of it so that if they see us in a store, they'd be like, Oh, I'm familiar with, with Philips, I can't believe they're in the grocery store that I shop at, I'm definitely going to pick up the bag. So that's kind of like our our approach of like, definitely, like over invest in. And like I view the website as like more of a brand extension than a profit center. Which I'm sure my investors would love to hear. But but but that's like, that's the reality is like, you know, snacks are something that people buy in the grocery store. It's not necessarily a trip driver, like when I was at Harry's, like people will go to the store, because they're out of razor blades. And so it's driving trips. For us, it's getting my groceries, I'm out of milk and eggs, I need to go to the store. And then because of how thoughtful our grocery stores are with putting milk and eggs in the way back, like you'll walk by the snack aisle, you'll pick up a snack, and then you'll get the thing you actually need. So that's what we're gonna lean into.
Yeah, I noticed I believe in those subscription on the site yet, right? Yeah, was
in maybe we'll do that one day, like we're working with repeat right now. I'm like, figuring out when people should buy their next box. But, you know, it's again, like, it's such an impulse buy that like, I don't know, if there's like a real regular cadence that people would want to subscribe to, and thinking about my experiences subscribing, and you know, having things show up that I don't want, it just doesn't always create the best customer experience, especially with something like six, like fairly large size boxes, or bags of snacks. Like one, I guess, feedback point of feedback we're getting from customers is I really liked the product, but I don't have room for six bags. So is there a way for me to buy fewer bags at a time? And unfortunately, there isn't because otherwise I'll like lose money on every order, which I don't want to have happen. And so I mean, in overtime, like we're going to explore that, but it's just like one of those things where like, well, if someone subscribes and they have three bags left and then I'm sending them another six now they have like nine bags of my product. Like is that something they really want? Am I creating a good experience for the people who I want to have a good experience because I am doing it as you know, we're if you think about a brand, like Cheetos or Doritos are Pringles I mean, I've been a customer of them for like, like 32 years old, so probably 32 years like and so every experience a customer has with our product, I want to make sure that in 30 years from now, when they see us on retail, they don't associate us with like a negative experience at any point in time.
So let's let's wrap up with just on the marketing side again. What's working like what what you what do you guys feel you're doing unique in terms of channel in terms of creative that you feel is working? Is it word of mouth? Is it you know, micro influencers, etc? And where do you see you guys expanding in the future in terms of marketing channels?
Yeah, we So we've tried everything. And that was kind of my approach, like it's being a bootstrap slash, like friends and family type of brand. It's always like you want to be conscious of capital. But you also like want to know what you would do if you had capital and had to deploy it at scale. And so I spent the summer like we've tested a lot we've done paid influencer, we've done micro influencers we've done you know, some some tests on podcasts we've done, like, traditional paid social on Facebook, and Instagram really just like trying everything. And it took us like trying everything to learn. I think there's two things that I'm really excited about. Number one is what I call like, kind of like product placement, where, you know, we did some podcast testing with Barstool Sports. And, you know, it's what we found to be most effective was just like if the product is just sitting in the background of stuff happening. So I think we're gonna lean into that a little bit more just like seeing people eat it is just like one of those things, though, like they're eating it and they're having a positive reaction. Like, maybe that's something I want to try like, that does really well. The other thing that's done well is organic social, which is something we want to lean into a bit more. So we're trying to be as active on Twitter as eye candy and with all the other responsibilities I have as a founder, so I tweet a lot but like it's there's some science behind it. We're like, I spend like two hours like batching out a bunch of tweets for the next week, and then just like kind of regularly send them out. I'm also kind of being, you know, trying to just get into the right people's mentioned that the right time, Instagram, we're doing some cool stuff just like putting out cool design out there. We want to get into tick tock but you know, I think just being organic and out there and just like being the cool brand. We know we are, I think those are the things that I think actually will work the best. And the other thing is, how do we just create content around the brand. So we're working on like a man in the street type of campaign where I have a good friend of mine who's just like a funny guy. And he's like, Hey, like, how about, I just like, we get like a camera and a microphone and a couple bags. And we just like have fun in Washington Square Park. And so it's like little things like that which we can both use in the moment to get people to try because at the end of the day, like we stand by our product, we think it tastes really good. We think people who will try it will think it tastes really good. So we can do whatever we can to get a bag in somebody's hand. Like that's what matters. And then using that to then turn into content we can then use on organic social, which is like, not groundbreaking at all. But it's just you know, what we think will probably work best for us.
Yeah, I think the whole barstool thing is super interesting. And as you said that like I could no I listen to like Dan Patrick show I listened to Pat McAfee and that sort of thing. And they all do like either a YouTube simulcast or Dan Patrick's on peacock like, I can totally see that right. Or you Daniel avatars and other one right? I totally see like your bag in front of them while they're talking. And they're reading and that makes a ton of sense. And it's you know, for those listening, I mean, I think it's a great a great kind of marketing hack of sorts, but just a tactic that marketers need to consider as there's all these new channels and all these new distribution centers and all these you know, telecasts so yeah, as we round out, I mean, tell us tell us what's coming next for FPS and I'm going to call it FPS not f ups now and now that I know so sales what's coming next for FPS? And then tell us tell us where to find them?
Yeah, so I think for us what's next we are hopefully going to expand into retail a ton next year, we're going to try to raise a bit of capital to help do that because I think you know, you don't want to have one retail relationship you know, make or break the company we need a little bit have a little bit of a war chest to make that happen. But But yeah, like we want to be we want to be everywhere besides like Whole Foods is kind of like the goal here. And, and yeah, so I mean, I'm, I'm excited about the future of the product. I think we're gonna have a lot of cool new flavors constantly coming in and out. And I think the goal is like if you've, you've already seen us, congratulations, you're very early. And you know, we're going to be if we do this right in 10 years, we're going to be like the next modern iconic snack brand.
Super cool. Yeah. Good luck. I can't wait. I can't wait to watch the ride.
I'll need I need all the luck I can get. Yeah, hopefully we can pull it off.
So tell us online and socials just anywhere we should find you let us know.
Oh, yeah, for sure. So Twitter, eat ups. Instagram also eat flops. Tick tock. I think we're also up there too. And then in stores, you can find us at Fox Trot market. We're about to put up a store locator that will show all the mom and pops. I don't need to list out like 17 different stores right now. But yeah, we're slowly but surely trying to make our way into as many sources as
possible. Cool. And the URL just spell it out. So people, how many Epson flops?
Yeah, two F's, F F. ups.com. Awesome. So
good. Like puffs backward but not really. Exactly. Backwards. Yeah. Awesome. So good to talk to you. This is great. And appreciate it. And yeah, have we appreciate you catching up with us? For sure. All right.